From 1st June, Tesco Bank began charging *all* transactions recharged via Curve card to their Credit Card as a cash advance with a fee of 3.99% and charging interest from the day of the transaction. I just wanted to register my dissatisfaction at the way Tesco Bank have unilaterally decided to charge all transactions on Curve as 'cash advances'. First of all - Tesco Bank are the only organisation doing this - Natwest, Barclaycard, Virgin, Creation, MBNA etc. are all allowing them to purchase normally as transactions. How does Tesco Bank justify charging for transactions which are being sent as purchases (and are treated by literally every other card company as purchases)? Secondly - many customers, myself included, received absolutely no notice of the change whatsoever. Apparently, only customers who used Curve cards over a specific 2 day period in April were sent letters. This is quite simply not good enough. It is beyond awful customer service to start charging customers for their regular activity. Because of the way transactions are posted several days after the transaction - the first time I became aware of the issue was on the 4th of June, by which time I'd already accrued charges of around £60 and interest. Thirdly - even though we can, thankfully, move the transactions to other less draconion card providers using Curve's 'go back in time' feature, we are apparently stuck with whatever charges have been accrued before we became aware of the issue, plus whatever interest was accrued. Absolutely no flexibility or understanding offered by customer services whatsoever. Totally and completely unacceptable that Tesco Bank behave in this way. I currently use Tesco Bank for my main current account, savings and credit cards. I'm also about to buy my first home and was considering using Tesco Bank for a mortgage. If this is how they choose to treat customers I shall be closing all my accounts and going elsewhere. It is the most anti-customer banking experience I have been through in my life. To top it off, I've just forked out a £150 annual fee for a 'Premium' credit card. The way this has been managed and I've been treated is so far from 'Premium' it's a joke.
Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
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07-06-18, 12:07WillPSTesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
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07-06-18, 13:44JeffdeB1Re: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
I agree with everything you have said. I received a letter on 24 May which set out what type of transactions would be treated as cash and the new T&Cs. I cannot see how Curve fits in to any of the categories. Tesco Bank would appear to be in breach of its terms.
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07-06-18, 13:53morganandrewj87Re: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
It is absolutely ridiculous; there is no cash element to the transaction at all, and as said below, it was impossible to foresee Curve purchases being treated in this way from the wording in the letters sent out. Tesco are required to be clear and not misleading in their Ts&Cs so I just cannot see how this won't get overturned, even if it has to go through FOS. Why companies continue to shoot themselves in the foot by refusing to do the obviously right thing in the first place is baffling; short-termism at its worst. Curve on the other hand have been great.
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08-06-18, 11:40ScottWRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
I’m really sorry to read your posts and I want to make you all aware that we take your concerns seriously. All of our credit card customers were notified in April that we were making changes to our credit card fees and specifically how non-purchase transactions, like topping up a pre-paid card or buying foreign currency outside of Tesco Bank, were now going to be treated as cash transactions.
Any customers that used their card for services, like Curve, between May 2017 and April 2018 got a second letter in May to ensure that they understood how these changes would affect them in future. I’m sorry @WillPS[/b] that you didn’t receive this letter as you hadn’t used your Curve card at this point.
Curve cards operate in the same manner as prepaid cards whereby money is transferred from your credit card account to your Curve card prior to being passed from Curve to the retailer. The changes made to our fees mean that a transaction of this nature to a prepaid card is classified as a cash transaction, and so therefore carries the same fee. -
08-06-18, 12:22DJASHPOLE1Re: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
, can we then take that as confirmation that Tesco will; soon be charging for any transactions made via Paypal and other such services, as Curve functions in EXACTLY the same way as this (funds transferred to an FCA regulated body and immediately transferred to a third party)
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08-06-18, 13:02ScottWRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Hi , thanks for your post. PayPal is an online payment service provider, acting as a payment intermediary for direct purchases for goods or services. This is why no fees will be applied when using PayPal unless the merchant processing the payment makes us aware that the funds are being used as cash transaction, such as a wire transfer or investment transaction.
Curve, as a payment service, operates in the same way as a prepaid card, requesting funds to be pulled into their account before being transferred to the merchant or withdrawn via ATM. As this money can then be used in any way, such as making a cash withdrawal or gambling, we have made the decision to treat this type of transaction as a cash transaction.
We've received your message via Facebook as well and my colleague Joe will be able to discuss your complaint in more detail. -
08-06-18, 14:25DonnaRuRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Curve is a debit card and similar to Paypal also operates as a payment intermediary for direct purchases for goods or services. Curve accounts cannot be topped up and the funds are pulled from the payment card (like Tesco) for a specific transaction.
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08-06-18, 14:40DJASHPOLE1Re: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
wrote:
Curve, as a payment service, operates in the same way as a prepaid card, requesting funds to be pulled into their account before being transferred to the merchant or withdrawn via ATM. As this money can then be used in any way, such as making a cash withdrawal or gambling,https://openodds.com/betting-sites-that-accept-paypal/ -
08-06-18, 15:00scragendRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
wrote:
Any customers that used their card for services, like Curve, between May 2017 and April 2018 got a second letter in May to ensure that they understood how these changes would affect them in future. I’m sorry @WillPS that you didn’t receive this letter as you hadn’t used your Curve card at this point. I first used my Tesco card with Curve on 22nd March 2018, and I did not receive a letter in May. -
08-06-18, 21:17WillPSRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
"ll of our credit card customers were notified in April that we were making changes to our credit card fees and specifically how non-purchase transactions, like topping up a pre-paid card or buying foreign currency outside of Tesco Bank, were now going to be treated as cash transactions." Not true. I have held a (normal, not premium) Tesco Clubcard Credit Card since 2014. I have not received a letter regarding that card. I challenge you to find a letter bearing my name and address with this information. "Any customers that used their card for services, like Curve, between May 2017 and April 2018 got a second letter in May to ensure that they understood how these changes would affect them in future. I’m sorry @WillPS that you didn’t receive this letter as you hadn’t used your Curve card at this point." Again, not true. It appears to all intents and purposes that a "second" letter was only sent to customers who purchased during a two day window in March/April when Curve were mistakenly sending transactions with the wrong code, an error which has since been remedied. I am not among this group - at the time I had a standard Tesco card, which was not assigned to my Curve card (which I've held for almost a year). At the end of April I applied for and received a Premium Credit Card which I immediately assigned to my Curve card, and used without issue for a month before these charges started appearing. The charges appeared without warning. I haven't received anything - again I challenge you to find a letter with my name and address on; that's what the ombudsmen will want to see. I am absolutely certain that I haven't received one. "Curve cards operate in the same manner as prepaid cards whereby money is transferred from your credit card account to your Curve card prior to being passed from Curve to the retailer. The changes made to our fees mean that a transaction of this nature to a prepaid card is classified as a cash transaction, and so therefore carries the same fee."That's completely untrue. Curve operates in the same way that PayPal does, whereby they process the transaction and then charge your selected payment card. If Tesco Bank are charging intermediaries - Tesco Bank should be applying the charge to PayPal too. My Curve is not a prepaid card by the way, it is a Mastercard Debit card, exactly like the ones issued by Clydesdale, Yorkshire, Starling, Monzo and Danske Banks (and soon to be issued by TSB and Santander). ------------------------- If you wouldn't mind, I'd quite like it if you replied with a proper response to each of the 3 points of concern I have outlined in my original post. To make it easy - I'll truncate it in to 4 one sentence questions: Question 1:Why do Tesco Bank charge customers cash fees for using credit cards, when literally no other card issuer are making this charge? Question 2:Why were a subset of customers given absolutely no notice whatsoever of charges? Question 3a:Why are customers being stuck with cash advance charges even after getting the purchases refunded? Question 3b:Why have customer service personnel been given absolutely no leeway to waive these fees, particularly given the complete lack of notice?
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08-06-18, 21:33jsmith9114Re: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
I’ve been using my curve card frequently with my Tesco Premium Credit Card and have not received a letter. The first I knew about it was today when Curve emailed me, So now I have a load of charges.
Considering I’m paying a £150 annual fee for my credit card I think it’s a bit of a cheek!
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09-06-18, 09:18heb999Re: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
My husband has been charged a transaction fee for a £200 cash withdrawal made on his Curve card linked to his Tesco Mastercard. He did not receive a letter from Tesco about the changes to the Ts & Cs regarding usage of his Curve card. He had been just about to apply for the Tesco Premium Mastercard and focussing a lot more spending at Tesco but is now reconsidering. If Tesco just introduce new charges without informing its customers it might be preferable to use a different credit card. Is it likely that Tesco will refund the eroneous charge?
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09-06-18, 14:54flyukRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
This is actually pointless. Don't Tesco realise that letting Curve take the payment like they do with Paypal absolves them of any credit card protection responsibility? Also, it makes zero difference to Tesco if the purchase is made via Curve or directly on the card, the interest rate stays the same. All this does is erode customer benefits, forcing them to use other cards with Curve. Is Tesco that naive in thinking that there are not literally dozens of other cards willing to act fairly in the Credid Card market? It just shows they are acting with little regard for their customers, while looking for the extra few % of profit. They will sting a few customers, who will think twice about using Tesco with Curve again, costing them more than the % they originally made. Looks good in a board meeting, but has little if any positive effect on profit.
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10-06-18, 09:50DgeRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Absolutely agree Will. It seems that Tesco admit now to specifically targeting Curve customers but without having the courage (or sense of propriety/decent customer service) to warn those very people up front. Why would I, or anyone, look at my very physical Mastercard debit card and assume that this is what Tesco is targeting with their reference to prepaid or virtual cards?? It is exactly the type of ridiculous nonsense that the regulator will eventually strike down. It would seem that Tesco has enough self-inflicted blunders to resolve without adding to them.
Heavy handed and misguided actions like this taken at helicopter level from a C level executive just undermine the hard work and good customer service from the thousands of diligent Tesco workers in the (literal) shopfloor. Time to involve Martin Lewis again! He must know the Tesco board by first names by now. -
10-06-18, 10:01DgeRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
I am another "customer" that did *not* receive a second letter warning of these specific transactions although I have been using a Curve card since March. As I have posted elsewhere why on earth would I look at my very physical Mastercard debit card and connect it to a letter from Tesco warning of cash advance fees on prepayment and virtual cards?! It's as relevant as a letter about a lettuce!
I have complained to your customer service and an awaiting a callback. I will escalate as far as I need to and that includes the regulator and consumer protection groups. Every so often a company does something so blatantly stupid and against all common sense that you have to take a step back and wonder at how it made it through the many layers of PR and legal architecture. And then take action to make sure common sense is enforced. -
10-06-18, 15:28JeffdeB1Re: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
It is totally incorrect to say that Curve is a prepaid card or operates like a prepaid card. It cannot be loaded or topped up. Your customer service team has been instructed to say the fee is applied because it is a ‘virtual’ which Curve also is not. Tesco needs to get its story straight and to do this promptly.
Please also correct your post.
Curve does not fall in to any of the categories allegedly notified in April. Even if Curve operated ‘like a prepaid card’ as you say in your post, that does not make it a prepaid card such that you can apply a cash advance fee.
This has been going on for over a week; it is inexcusable that Tesco has still not addressed it. -
10-06-18, 15:31JeffdeB1Re: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
The fact you claim that Curve operates ‘like a prepaid card’ does not entitle Tesco to charge a fee for a prepaid card. The Curve card is not covered within your recently amended terms. Please get your legal team to address immediately. It is affecting a number of people for ten days.
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10-06-18, 15:36JeffdeB1Re: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Absolutely right. Tesco typically just isn’t listening. I also didn’t receive the Notice of Variation until 21 May and that quite clearly doesn’t include the Curve card anyway. Very odd that Tesco thought it necessary to send the May letter if they really had notified customers in April.
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10-06-18, 17:29sibbahzRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
I got the warning letter, but did not recognise Curve being the cause, as it is not a VIRTUAL card. It is a physical card. Due to this, I had to call customer services to figure out if fraud had taken place on my card as the letter stated that I had done a virtual or gambling/cash transaction in the past. As soon as it was said that Curve was the cause of this, I just closed by Tesco credit card account there and then. I do not carry the tesco card around, therfore without curve support, it is useless. Typical Tesco really. Also, most people with Curve cards will be using it to manage multiple credit/debit card accounts, therefore with Tesco being the only ones to do this, most will just charge their purchases to another card instead. Completely stupid move by Tesco.
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10-06-18, 17:34screendjRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Hi , thanks for reponding to customers here. I agree with as my stuation is largely the same, and look forward to your answers to his questions, quoted below: Q1: Why do Tesco Bank charge customers cash fees for using credit cards, when literally no other card issuer are making this charge? Q2: Why were a subset of customers given absolutely no notice whatsoever of charges?Q3a: Why are customers being stuck with cash advance charges even after getting the purchases refunded?Q3b: Why have customer service personnel been given absolutely no leeway to waive these fees, particularly given the complete lack of notice? I have received no letters from Tesco Bank about a change to charges and have had a retailer refund transaction but you've so far still kept the fee. In a call with customer services today the gentleman could not refund the charges and suggested I should log a complaint. I've opted to respond on here and on Twitter rather than use a less social one-to-one complaints process. In my opinion, this inadequate communication, negative treatment of customers and slow pick-up of technologies (contactless, andoid/apple pay, app features) is not good for us and even worse for your reputation. New lean FinTech companies are snapping at your heels with functionality and value, and once they build a solid lending history, you will need a solid business model and customer offering to compete. If someone influencial there wants a customer's objective opinion feel free to get in touch.Thanks.
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12-06-18, 15:42DgeRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Typical. No reply when challenged. That is an answer in itself I suppose.
And despite the promise to reply to my complaint within two business days, I still have no phone call. I guess they must be very busy.... -
12-06-18, 16:49WillPSRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Just clear proof that Tesco Bank don't care about their customers tbh. I'm on holiday, but I've cleared my cards off in full. If I don't have a response by the time I get back I'll close my accounts.
If this means anything to you, - please respond. -
13-06-18, 16:07ScottWRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
I’m really sorry for the lack of updates over the last few days. We’ve been taking all of your comments and questions on board and we wanted to make sure that we were doing the right thing for our customers in this situation.
All of our credit card customers were notified in April that we were making changes to our credit card fees and specifically how non-purchase transactions, like topping up a pre-paid card or buying foreign currency outside of Tesco Bank, were now going to be treated as cash transactions.
Curve customers using a Tesco Bank Credit Card to fund their account were charged this fee as the card operates in the manner of a prepaid card, where two consecutive transactions take place with the Tesco Bank Credit Card funding an e-money account held by Curve that then immediately passes payment through to the merchant.
We recognise that the application of this fee when a Tesco Bank credit card is used to fund Curve accounts has created some confusion for customers. We apologise to customers for this confusion. As a result, we have chosen to pause the charging of this fee in relation to Curve customers while we review this matter. Any customer who has been charged to date will be refunded, and should we make any future changes we will let our customers know. -
13-06-18, 22:00WillPSRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Thank you for the update. Can you please confirm:a) will all transactions made using Curve since June 1st no longer carry interest (until the statement due date, as usual)?b) will all transactions made from today onwards be subject to the standard 'interest free until statement date' scheme, and no 'cash transaction fee'?c) if any of the above changes, all customers will be written to with specific reference to how Curve card will be treated, at least 60 days in advance of the change?
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14-06-18, 07:10DgeRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Thank you . Could you please confirm:
1. if individual action must be taken by each affected customer to reclaim the fees
2. whether Tesco will be doing this automatically, and
3. An idea of timescale
I assume of course that interest added as a result of these fees will also be refunded. -
14-06-18, 07:26flyukRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Thank you for the update Scott. As I am overseas for a long period, this will switch all my spending back to Tesco through Curve.
Thank you to Tesco also for listening and acting. -
14-06-18, 10:25ScottWRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
We don’t have a timescale for the refunds yet, but they will be carried out automatically, so no-one will need to call. Our Credit Card team are working on the solution right now, but as soon as we get an update about it, we’ll let you all know. No-one will be out of pocket due to the charges and the interest will be adjusted.
As for interest, the transactions will be treated as purchases for the time being, so if you do currently pay interest on your account and you don’t clear the balance of the account off in full and on time, interest may be added to your statement. The pause to the charges will be applied in the coming days, so it’s still possible that any transactions made over the next few days will still have the same fees applied, but as discussed in my last post, these will be refunded.
We will be notifying customers about what happens next regarding services like Curve soon, but we don’t have a timescale yet. There will be plenty of notice though and we’ll make sure that everything is clearly laid out. -
14-06-18, 13:40screendjRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Hi Scott, thanks for your reply and to Tesco Bank for taking our feedback and acting - it's very much appreciated. Your message sounded like you're blaming customers for not understanding your systems and card fees, or for not predicting that you would identity Curve as a prepaid card - I hope that's not the case and that during this charging pause your team will come to the right conclusion for us all and not add an extra fee going forward. Cheers.
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18-06-18, 08:45Boman1882Re: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Hi Scott, Just want to clarify. I have a 0% on purchases card. So far I have been charged interest on the curve transactions + the cash fee.
Wanted to confirm that I will be refunded both the cash fee and the interest charged and that neither charges will effect the promotion period for the 0% on purchases.
i.e. that Tesco's is not going to start charging me interest on the balance of other purchases I have made. Thanks Alan -
18-06-18, 12:40WillPSRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
- I would also like assurance that no 'cash transactions' will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies. This is the sort of thing which could potentially stop me getting a mortgage.
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19-06-18, 11:46AdamFRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Hi Alan, the fees and interest will both be refunded for you, and this would not impact your 0% interest period for purchases, so you'll still have this on the account.
Credit reference agency's will be able to see this on your credit report, however this should not have any negative effects given the cash transactions were not used to pay off any other finance or for gambling. -
19-06-18, 13:36WillPSRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Thank you for your reply Unfortunately I'm not sure how you can make that assertion. If Tesco Bank are reporting Cash Transactions to the CRAs, that is all alternative lenders will see - they wont know if it was 'normal' spend or me withdrawing thousands and going to the bookies. It's up to the other lender to construe from that what they will. If Tesco Bank have stopped treating Curve as a cash transaction Tesco Bank should not be reporting *any* Curve spend as cash spend to the CRAs; it is factually inaccurate and potentially very damaging.
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20-06-18, 07:32ScottWRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Cash withdrawals, like ATM transactions or cashback, do get reported, but cash transactions, like the transactions using Curve cards, do not. This means there'll be no impact on your credit file.
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20-06-18, 11:19Marvin__SuggsRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
I have been incorrectly charged the fee because I used my Tesco credit card to pay for a mortgage valuation. This is a service and not repayment of borrowing as stated in the T&Cs. Surely Tesco must be investigating and refunding other users who have been wrongly charged a fee having already done so for Curve card users.
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20-06-18, 11:41Marvin__SuggsRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Dont't use your Tesco CC for any of your mortgage fees. They also see this as cash transactions. I paid for my Valuation using CC and now have fee + interest. Paying for a service is somehow repaying borrowing even though i haven't even taken out the mortgage yet!!
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21-06-18, 12:40ScottWRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Hi , I'm sorry to read your posts and for any confusion that has been caused. If you use your card with a financial provider, it's down to how that company processes the transaction; if they class payments like the one you've made as a cash transaction, then that's how it will appear on our end. This hasn't changed as part of the recent change to the terms and conditions, this has always been the case. We'd always advise to check before using your card when you pay for a service.
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21-06-18, 13:10Marvin__SuggsRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Sorry, But when I phoned customer services to query the transaction I was told the reason WAS the changes which came in to affect on June 1st because the payment was made to a mortage provider, it doesn't seem to matter why just who was paid. Before I knew the issue was Tesco I contacted the mortgage provider as I thought they had put the payment through incorrectly. This is their response: "We would have just followed the standard process of which a relevant fee is debited/charged to cover the amount. I, or anyone haven’t heard of this before being classed as a cash transaction , as it just isn’t a cash transaction. This is the first case I’ve heard of this happening on and if we did this on more cases it would be an issue that would have a resolution for." Tesco clearly haven't thought this change through and the Terms & Conditions are nowhere near clear enough for the charges which are being applied. This payment was not a "Repayment of Borrowing". I haven't even got the mortgage yet so how could i be repaying it?
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22-06-18, 08:12ScottWRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
I'm sorry for any confusion caused by my response . We class our transactions based on the information provided to us by the merchant who is processing the payment. Even if you've been told they haven't changed anything at their end, if they send us a request for a payment that appears as a cash transaction, then that's how we will process it.
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26-06-18, 16:56zqRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Hi , Are you any nearer a timescale for the refunds yet? Thanks. wrote:
We don’t have a timescale for the refunds yet, but they will be carried out automatically, so no-one will need to call. Our Credit Card team are working on the solution right now, but as soon as we get an update about it, we’ll let you all know. No-one will be out of pocket due to the charges and the interest will be adjusted. As for interest, the transactions will be treated as purchases for the time being, so if you do currently pay interest on your account and you don’t clear the balance of the account off in full and on time, interest may be added to your statement. The pause to the charges will be applied in the coming days, so it’s still possible that any transactions made over the next few days will still have the same fees applied, but as discussed in my last post, these will be refunded. We will be notifying customers about what happens next regarding services like Curve soon, but we don’t have a timescale yet. There will be plenty of notice though and we’ll make sure that everything is clearly laid out. -
27-06-18, 07:22RossMRe: Tesco treating *all* Curve activity as cash advances
Hi , thanks for your message. We don't currently have an update. However, as soon as we do, we will let our customers know.